204. What Happens When You’re Cut Off From All Human Contact? | No Stupid Questions

Freakonomics Radio Network

Introduction & Question Setup

Barry Douglas (Rebecca Lee Douglas's father) contests Angela's previous statement: "nobody's all that interested in how you act think or feel on a desert island"
References Tom Hanks' Cast Away movie as counterexample
Question: How does complete isolation from society affect brain and behavior?
Side debate: Which host (Mike or Angela) would last longer on deserted island
- Angela: Would fail due to inability to ask for help (her survival strategy)
- Mike: Would survive longer due to Angela's grit, but would be defeated by rodents/bugs rather than social isolation

Screenwriter William Broyles Jr. wrote Apollo 13, Planet of the Apes, then Cast Away
Broyles attended survival camp on island near Mexico's Sea of Cortez for several days
Camp activities: speared stingrays, opened coconuts, built lean-to from bamboo/palm leaves
Spent 1.5 days trying to make fire, eventually asked for help with raw fish
Key insight: Challenge wasn't just physical but emotional and spiritual
Wilson volleyball origin: Broyles found actual volleyball on beach, started talking to it, called it Wilson (after brand name)
This became genesis for movie's anthropomorphization theme
Demonstrates basic human need to connect with others - even creating "person" from inanimate object

Two types of isolation identified:
- Involuntary: solitary confinement, shipwreck/Cast Away situations
- Voluntary: chosen solitude, retreat experiences
Personal example: Angela's experience with invited events vs. having nothing to do
- Voluntary alone time: peaceful and enjoyable
- Involuntary alone time: "wait does nobody care" feeling
Key difference: agency and choice fundamentally change psychological experience

Context: Family snorkeling trip in Miami, mother (86-87 years old) nearly drowned in strong current
Angela tested positive for COVID, had to quarantine separately from family
10-day quarantine in wealthy friend Warren's house in Miami
Despite physical luxuries and conveniences, experienced profound loneliness
By end of quarantine, wasn't anthropomorphizing objects but recognized fundamental need for human contact beyond basic survival needs
Highlights how involuntary nature changed experience despite comfortable conditions

Craig Haney (UC Santa Cruz psychology professor) specializes in solitary confinement psychology
US has one of highest rates of solitary confinement globally
Report title: "Solitary Confinement is Not Solitude: The Worst Case Scenario of Being Alone in Prison"
Key characteristics:
- Involuntary separation from all social contact
- Deprivation of sensory stimulation (often isolated from prison sounds/activities)
- Physical separation from touch
- Cell size often king-size bed dimensions total (including toilet, small cot)
- Frequently no daylight access

Mandela: most famous solitary confinement prisoner
UN "Mandela Rules" restrict solitary confinement use
Mandela quote: "solitary confinement was the most forbidding aspect of prison life. There was no end and no beginning, there is only one's mind which can begin to play tricks"
Significant: Mandela ranked solitary isolation above hard physical labor and other adversities during 27-year imprisonment
Historical parallels: excommunication, shunning, exile as social punishment methods

Brain evolved expecting constant sensory bombardment (visual, auditory, smell, touch)
Solitary confinement creates opposite conditions
Short-term laboratory studies (floating tanks, stuffed ears) show hallucination onset
Brain creates sensory input when deprived - "phantom limb" analogy
Neurological infrastructure expects inputs, creates them when absent
Important distinction: desert island provides sensory stimulation (sounds, sights, smells) unlike solitary confinement

Scottish sailor, basis for Robinson Crusoe novel
Attempted mutiny, abandoned on island when no one followed
Stranded 4 years, 4 months with basic supplies (musket, pistol, gunpowder, hatchet, knife, navigation tools, pot, tobacco, cheese)
Initially despondent, considered suicide with bullet
Noted gnawing hunger was "welcome feeling" - gave him something to think about (sensory stimulation)
Environmental challenges: tree snapping in storms, rats nibbling food
Avoided Spanish ships (known for capturing/enslaving people)
Upon rescue: initially cheerful, but months later became "burdened by the world"
Observers noted he was "happiest when he confined his wants to the natural necessities"
Re-entry difficulty: struggled with societal expectations after thriving in stripped-down environment

1975 study: "Social Recovery of Monkeys Isolated for the First Year of Life: Rehabilitation and Therapy"
Baby monkeys raised in complete solitude (no mother, siblings, peers) for first 12 months
When introduced to normal monkeys: displayed antisocial behavior, couldn't interact properly
Treatment: paired isolated monkeys with younger, normal "therapist monkeys"
Results: isolated monkeys learned to play, groom, engage in normal social behaviors
Key insights:
- Start with simplest interactions
- Helper role (being responsible for someone needier) brings out best in individuals
- Gradual rehabilitation possible even after severe early isolation

Historical human societies: mixed age groups (1-year-old with 6, 14, 29-year-old, elderly)
Modern segregation: homogeneous age bands (all first graders together)
Mixed age groups healthier for human development
Mike's rule: cultivate friendships 20 years older and 20 years younger
Benefits: young person's enthusiasm/lack of cynicism + elderly wisdom/perspective

Agency identified as fundamental human need alongside water, food, shelter, social contact
Choice transforms experience from confinement to solitude
Flamini maintained agency over time usage despite isolation
Voluntary vs involuntary distinction crucial for psychological impact

Angela's European rail pass travel experience (early 20s)
Lived on bread and chocolate milk, traveled alone
Met British person named Michael, ate sandwich on bridge
Experience was miserable, came home without epiphanies
Preference for eating sandwich with known people (Jason, Amanda, Lucy, Mike) over strangers
Acknowledges others enjoy brief connections with strangers, but personally prefers sustained relationships

"Wild" book: hiking Pacific Crest Trail (not Appalachian) after life crisis
Voluntary solitude but includes human interaction with other hikers
Benefits of doing things with strangers: opens up to diverse people vs. similar friend groups
Trail experience different from pure isolation due to regular human contact

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